Author Topic: Smoking Ban - initial thoughts  (Read 5794 times)

  • Offline twist

  • Posts: 203
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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #45 on: July 10, 2007, 03:45:48 AM
*deleted*

Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #46 on: July 10, 2007, 10:28:31 AM
Quote from: twist
Quote from: Cypher
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.

Live a little - who really gives a sh*t about a little bit of smoke. And no your not going to die from lung cancer because of the smoke in that club you visit once a week, you need to get a grip if you think that.

Id rather live to the age of 40 and look back knowing I had a beautiful care-free as possible life than get my telegram from the queen.


Live a little who gives a sh*t about your health, die from alchohol poisining, hurt someone because you were so blind drunk you couldnt see, some weird japanese STD given or recieved, who cares.  Thats what your saying right?

Personally, I care enough to look after myself and responsible rnough to care for those around me.  Rather live 40 years?  Thats the beauty of free will, thats your choice to make, not one for others.


No, thats not what Im saying.

Im not sure you quite understood what I was getting at.

Theres a big difference between the view I expressed above and that of someone completely nihilistic as you described.

If Im in the company of non-smokers Ill almost always ask if they mind me smoking - and there are many many places I wouldnt dream of lighting up out of courtesy - However a pub really isnt one of them.

Such is the beauty of sacrifice, moderation, values and common sense. I dont need a law to decide those for me, especially not one as tedious as the smoking ban, do you?

Back to my point about the nanny state thing - Do you believe we need more law and legislation like that recently passed? Are people so stupid they need to be told how best to live their lives.

On the other hand... maybe Im just young and naive.


Quote from: Serious
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.


I have at least five mates that thought the way you do, now all of them think they were dumb ****s who had no idea what they were talking about :lol:

Well, four now, one of them died of liver failure.


Thats really tragic and Im sorry to hear that.

Are you arguing using that example and the wisdom of hindsight that a few more laws, legislations, limits etc. would be a good thing as theyd help to stop things like this happening?

If so I can really relate to where your coming from - Really doesnt say much about your late friends ability to look after himself though.

Quote from: Serious

Quote

For every liberty we gain - Two are being stripped from us.


When was one given back again? :shrug:


Youve got me there! Ill change it to this:

Were loosing our liberties - Its only a matter of time now until were living in cages being fed from a drip.


p.s. this seems a bit heated to be in general discussion :shock:   - Whats going on?! xD



You dont want to spread STDs, but your quite happy to increase passerbys chances of getting cancer. Nice outlook on life. "F**k you jack, im alright".

Clearly we as a society require laws such as the smoking ban purely to remain civil to one another, with people such as yourself quite happy to place others in harms way it seems that we require a police state to knock some sense into some people.

When will smokers get the idea, that the ban isnt about YOU... its about those AROUND YOU. Other people... the kids having a pub lunch with their parents, the bar staff having to serve you in a cloud of smoke (before the ban) day in day out, me and my friends, me with a chest infection and my mates with asthma...

Why the hell should we put our comfort and health in second place to you... come back with the vice versa argument, and im sorry but you were not born with a cigarette in your mouth, its not the "natural state" of the system. Its in fact foreign to the system, you are doing something different from the norm, why should we make a consensus for something that causes us harm.


Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #47 on: July 10, 2007, 10:48:59 AM
rich, you are right. but when people cant see infront of their own nose, they wont admit it.

  • Offline mrt

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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #48 on: July 10, 2007, 12:37:51 PM
I still see no harm in having both sides of the fence - I do sincerely get your points of being a non-smoker and being subjected to smokers smokey smokeydo!  

I still feel we should have the freedom to choose!

Instead of a ban, pubs should have been forced to be smoking or non smoking!  You do get a choice as to whether to go out to these places?  Its the fact that you have smoker friends who want to smoke.  I can really see both sides of the argument.

I am not saying that my argument is totally the right way forward, but I do think there could have been a better middle ground.  If you are a smoker who likes to smoke the same as others like to drink, why should this just be taken away from you?  

As for restaurants etc ... I do agree even as a smoker, that it is unfair to smoke.

Having said all that, tis no big deal standing outside the pub to have a ciggie!

  • Offline Edd

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Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #49 on: July 10, 2007, 12:59:17 PM
ive just "quit" smoking, i say "quit" because ive only not had 1 for 36 hours, but i do agree with the smokers on this, there should have been a middle ground, a compromise as it were, but unfortunately that would have taken too long to do

Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #50 on: July 10, 2007, 13:13:01 PM
Quote from: mrt
I still see no harm in having both sides of the fence - I do sincerely get your points of being a non-smoker and being subjected to smokers smokey smokeydo!  

I still feel we should have the freedom to choose!

Instead of a ban, pubs should have been forced to be smoking or non smoking!  You do get a choice as to whether to go out to these places?  Its the fact that you have smoker friends who want to smoke.  I can really see both sides of the argument.

I am not saying that my argument is totally the right way forward, but I do think there could have been a better middle ground.  If you are a smoker who likes to smoke the same as others like to drink, why should this just be taken away from you?  

As for restaurants etc ... I do agree even as a smoker, that it is unfair to smoke.

Having said all that, tis no big deal standing outside the pub to have a ciggie!


We could just take things down even more.

It is illegal to drink alcohol on public land.

The only places its legal to drink alcohol are pubs, clubs, bars, or at home.

Now stop your bitching about having the ban on "enclosed spaces", you can still shelter from the weather in the beer garden under umbrellas and canopies, you can hide in the doorway. Christ... you smokers have it good in comparison to us drinkers.

  • Offline Edd

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Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #51 on: July 10, 2007, 14:33:33 PM
because smoking and drinking never go hand in hand..........

  • Offline mrt

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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #52 on: July 10, 2007, 14:52:56 PM
Quote from: M3ta7h3ad
We could just take things down even more.

It is illegal to drink alcohol on public land.

The only places its legal to drink alcohol are pubs, clubs, bars, or at home.

Now stop your bitching about having the ban on "enclosed spaces", you can still shelter from the weather in the beer garden under umbrellas and canopies, you can hide in the doorway. Christ... you smokers have it good in comparison to us drinkers.


Sorry, but reading the previous posts it sounds like you are the one "bitching"!?!  

It is a good point about drinking on public land, but irrelevant to the immediate question.

I indeed can find shelter elsewhere ... I am not that fussed about the ban tbh, although that was not my point, now was it!

 ;)

Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #53 on: July 10, 2007, 14:54:47 PM
Quote from: Edd
because smoking and drinking never go hand in hand..........


It isnt a certainty. Where as drinking... and drinking does. :)

  • Offline twist

  • Posts: 203
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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #54 on: July 10, 2007, 15:44:03 PM
Quote from: M3ta7h3ad
Quote from: twist
Quote from: Cypher
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.

Live a little - who really gives a sh*t about a little bit of smoke. And no your not going to die from lung cancer because of the smoke in that club you visit once a week, you need to get a grip if you think that.

Id rather live to the age of 40 and look back knowing I had a beautiful care-free as possible life than get my telegram from the queen.


Live a little who gives a sh*t about your health, die from alchohol poisining, hurt someone because you were so blind drunk you couldnt see, some weird japanese STD given or recieved, who cares.  Thats what your saying right?

Personally, I care enough to look after myself and responsible rnough to care for those around me.  Rather live 40 years?  Thats the beauty of free will, thats your choice to make, not one for others.


No, thats not what Im saying.

Im not sure you quite understood what I was getting at.

Theres a big difference between the view I expressed above and that of someone completely nihilistic as you described.

If Im in the company of non-smokers Ill almost always ask if they mind me smoking - and there are many many places I wouldnt dream of lighting up out of courtesy - However a pub really isnt one of them.

Such is the beauty of sacrifice, moderation, values and common sense. I dont need a law to decide those for me, especially not one as tedious as the smoking ban, do you?

Back to my point about the nanny state thing - Do you believe we need more law and legislation like that recently passed? Are people so stupid they need to be told how best to live their lives.

On the other hand... maybe Im just young and naive.


Quote from: Serious
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.


I have at least five mates that thought the way you do, now all of them think they were dumb ****s who had no idea what they were talking about :lol:

Well, four now, one of them died of liver failure.


Thats really tragic and Im sorry to hear that.

Are you arguing using that example and the wisdom of hindsight that a few more laws, legislations, limits etc. would be a good thing as theyd help to stop things like this happening?

If so I can really relate to where your coming from - Really doesnt say much about your late friends ability to look after himself though.

Quote from: Serious

Quote

For every liberty we gain - Two are being stripped from us.


When was one given back again? :shrug:


Youve got me there! Ill change it to this:

Were loosing our liberties - Its only a matter of time now until were living in cages being fed from a drip.


p.s. this seems a bit heated to be in general discussion :shock:   - Whats going on?! xD



You dont want to spread STDs, but your quite happy to increase passerbys chances of getting cancer. Nice outlook on life. "F**k you jack, im alright".

Clearly we as a society require laws such as the smoking ban purely to remain civil to one another, with people such as yourself quite happy to place others in harms way it seems that we require a police state to knock some sense into some people.

When will smokers get the idea, that the ban isnt about YOU... its about those AROUND YOU. Other people... the kids having a pub lunch with their parents, the bar staff having to serve you in a cloud of smoke (before the ban) day in day out, me and my friends, me with a chest infection and my mates with asthma...

Why the hell should we put our comfort and health in second place to you... come back with the vice versa argument, and im sorry but you were not born with a cigarette in your mouth, its not the "natural state" of the system. Its in fact foreign to the system, you are doing something different from the norm, why should we make a consensus for something that causes us harm.



Did you even read my last post?

The idea that you need a law for this is bullsh*t. The mass majority of smokers are kind and considerate people and wouldnt dream of lighting up in a restaurant especially one which doesnt have a designated smoking area.

You walk into a pub - Your walking into a smoke filled domain - THIS IS one of the designated smoking zones of the world and has widely been accepted to be as long as anyone alive can remember!

Who are you too say it should be smoke free, you dont HAVE to visit this establishment - other public venues however I agree are an exception.

A No Smoking sticker in a pub is like putting a No Smoking sticker on the designated smoking area outside of the office.

edit:
I guess the ironic thing is all the people worried about the smoke - but not giving two sh*ts about the damage theyre doing to themselves from alcohol consumption in the same venue.

  • Offline matt5cott

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  • I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel fell off.
Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #55 on: July 10, 2007, 16:03:11 PM
I like to smoke a hero cigar now and again, probably once a week at most, its a bit annoying not being able to smoke inside, but I can fully appreciate the ban.

Once people adjust you will hear very little about it, I had a hero cigar the weekend before the ban kicked in, this floppy haired chap with a fag on said so what you gonna do next week then I said go outside he said, well then! what about in the winter I replied, not smoke, or wear a jumper its not rocket science.

Regarding the comments about smoking rooms etc, firstly its irrelevant on the main part, its now law, it wont be changing. Secondly, it defeats the point of the ban anyway on most parts, smoke wont magically stay in the confines of a room, or wait for the door to shut behind you for example, and besides many people would feel obliged to sit with their friends in the smoking rooms. When you have to go outside for a cig, its not dragging anyone else down with you.

Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #56 on: July 10, 2007, 16:04:53 PM
Quote from: twist
Quote from: M3ta7h3ad
Quote from: twist
Quote from: Cypher
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.

Live a little - who really gives a sh*t about a little bit of smoke. And no your not going to die from lung cancer because of the smoke in that club you visit once a week, you need to get a grip if you think that.

Id rather live to the age of 40 and look back knowing I had a beautiful care-free as possible life than get my telegram from the queen.


Live a little who gives a sh*t about your health, die from alchohol poisining, hurt someone because you were so blind drunk you couldnt see, some weird japanese STD given or recieved, who cares.  Thats what your saying right?

Personally, I care enough to look after myself and responsible rnough to care for those around me.  Rather live 40 years?  Thats the beauty of free will, thats your choice to make, not one for others.


No, thats not what Im saying.

Im not sure you quite understood what I was getting at.

Theres a big difference between the view I expressed above and that of someone completely nihilistic as you described.

If Im in the company of non-smokers Ill almost always ask if they mind me smoking - and there are many many places I wouldnt dream of lighting up out of courtesy - However a pub really isnt one of them.

Such is the beauty of sacrifice, moderation, values and common sense. I dont need a law to decide those for me, especially not one as tedious as the smoking ban, do you?

Back to my point about the nanny state thing - Do you believe we need more law and legislation like that recently passed? Are people so stupid they need to be told how best to live their lives.

On the other hand... maybe Im just young and naive.


Quote from: Serious
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.


I have at least five mates that thought the way you do, now all of them think they were dumb ****s who had no idea what they were talking about :lol:

Well, four now, one of them died of liver failure.


Thats really tragic and Im sorry to hear that.

Are you arguing using that example and the wisdom of hindsight that a few more laws, legislations, limits etc. would be a good thing as theyd help to stop things like this happening?

If so I can really relate to where your coming from - Really doesnt say much about your late friends ability to look after himself though.

Quote from: Serious

Quote

For every liberty we gain - Two are being stripped from us.


When was one given back again? :shrug:


Youve got me there! Ill change it to this:

Were loosing our liberties - Its only a matter of time now until were living in cages being fed from a drip.


p.s. this seems a bit heated to be in general discussion :shock:   - Whats going on?! xD



You dont want to spread STDs, but your quite happy to increase passerbys chances of getting cancer. Nice outlook on life. "F**k you jack, im alright".

Clearly we as a society require laws such as the smoking ban purely to remain civil to one another, with people such as yourself quite happy to place others in harms way it seems that we require a police state to knock some sense into some people.

When will smokers get the idea, that the ban isnt about YOU... its about those AROUND YOU. Other people... the kids having a pub lunch with their parents, the bar staff having to serve you in a cloud of smoke (before the ban) day in day out, me and my friends, me with a chest infection and my mates with asthma...

Why the hell should we put our comfort and health in second place to you... come back with the vice versa argument, and im sorry but you were not born with a cigarette in your mouth, its not the "natural state" of the system. Its in fact foreign to the system, you are doing something different from the norm, why should we make a consensus for something that causes us harm.



Did you even read my last post?

The idea that you need a law for this is bullsh*t. The mass majority of smokers are kind and considerate people and wouldnt dream of lighting up in a restaurant especially one which doesnt have a designated smoking area.

You walk into a pub - Your walking into a smoke filled domain - THIS IS one of the designated smoking zones of the world and has widely been accepted to be as long as anyone alive can remember!

Who are you too say it should be smoke free, you dont HAVE to visit this establishment - other public venues however I agree are an exception.

A No Smoking sticker in a pub is like putting a No Smoking sticker on the designated smoking area outside of the office.

edit:
I guess the ironic thing is all the people worried about the smoke - but not giving two sh*ts about the damage theyre doing to themselves from alcohol consumption in the same venue.


Where is your source with regards to it being a designated smoking venue in the UK.

Gentlemans clubs, and private member clubs, certainly I can see pipe smoking being popular in those areas.

Who are you to say that it should be smoke filled?! - Same applies, you dont have to visit any establishment, you can smoke just as easily on the street, in a car, or at home. Drinkers however have to drink in a pub, cant drink in cars, and cant drink on the streets. As said before, Drinking is not synonymous with smoking. In fact Id be willing to place a wager that more people drink than smoke.

No its nothing like it. The difference being, a designated smoking area, is not a pub.

You dont always have to drink alcohol in a pub, and a glass of red wine with a meal is proven to have some medicinal use.

  • Offline Dave

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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #57 on: July 10, 2007, 18:32:47 PM
Quote from: Eagle

Since when were non-smokers forced to go into pubs anyway?....


kind of missing the point

certain things have to be legislated against else they wont change on their own - car manufacturers wouldnt all have automatically fit seatbelts unless it was legislated nor would all cars be made to particularly safe standards - you could always say since when were people forced to drive cars or argue that it is free choice whether to buy a really safe car or go for the cheaper option but the fact is we need legislation regarding safety standards in cars specifically because without it it would cost lives.

Same with the ban on smoking in the workplace - it isnt just a ban on smoking in pubs it covers a whole load of areas and the fact is people do die from second hand smoke and they shouldnt have to - there is no reaon for it at all - all it takes is for the smoker to simply get up and go outside for 5 minutes and there wouldnt be a problem - thing is this needs to be legislated for else it wont happen as plenty of people are both ignorant and selfish.

Yes I agree that private members clubs should be exempt & they could have allowed for sealed off fumigated smoking rooms but pubs are public places and so having a ban is fair as far as they are concerned. Smokers can still smoke outside & of course you still get the few ignorant tossers who do it right next the door way so everyone has to walk through it but it is hardly a massive chore - the smoker just has to go out for a whole 5 minutes get his/her fix of nicotine then come back and be a normal sociably person again.  

  • Offline Cypher

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Re:Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #58 on: July 10, 2007, 18:35:47 PM
Quote from: twist
Quote from: Cypher
Quote from: twist
The modern world is obsessed with risk-free culture.

Fork it.

Live a little - who really gives a sh*t about a little bit of smoke. And no your not going to die from lung cancer because of the smoke in that club you visit once a week, you need to get a grip if you think that.

Id rather live to the age of 40 and look back knowing I had a beautiful care-free as possible life than get my telegram from the queen.


Live a little who gives a sh*t about your health, die from alchohol poisining, hurt someone because you were so blind drunk you couldnt see, some weird japanese STD given or recieved, who cares.  Thats what your saying right?

Personally, I care enough to look after myself and responsible rnough to care for those around me.  Rather live 40 years?  Thats the beauty of free will, thats your choice to make, not one for others.


No, thats not what Im saying.

Im not sure you quite understood what I was getting at.

Theres a big difference between the view I expressed above and that of someone completely nihilistic as you described.

If Im in the company of non-smokers Ill almost always ask if they mind me smoking - and there are many many places I wouldnt dream of lighting up out of courtesy - However a pub really isnt one of them.

Such is the beauty of sacrifice, moderation, values and common sense. I dont need a law to decide those for me, especially not one as tedious as the smoking ban, do you?

Back to my point about the nanny state thing - Do you believe we need more law and legislation like that recently passed? Are people so stupid they need to be told how best to live their lives.

On the other hand... maybe Im just young and naive.
p.s. this seems a bit heated to be in general discussion :shock:   - Whats going on?! xD



I dont know you so I can only come up with a character.  I certainly dont hope you are as I described.

I will give smokers credit, 8/10 actually are quite concious about those around them.

No I dont believe in a nanny state, but I do believe in some morals & common sense backed with legistation.  This one though I dont whole hearadly support.

Its heated because its an issue that matters to people for once.

  • Offline Edd

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Smoking Ban - initial thoughts
Reply #59 on: July 10, 2007, 19:25:09 PM
i found that a lot of non smokers still come outside with the smokers anyway
its obvious that smokers are cooler than non smokers by a mile

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