Author Topic: Starter / Battery or both? (Read 6265 times)

Eagle · **on:** April 23, 2011, 13:37:47 PM

Starter / Battery or both?

on: April 23, 2011, 13:37:47 PM

I've had intermittent trouble with starting the car over the last year or so. She'll generally start just fine cold but warm starts are 'never guaranteed'!

Yesterday was the worst; it felt like the starter motor was jammed solid. Dials were going a bit crazy too and the radio security/code doohickey locked me out. Called recovery and... guess what happened as soon as he turned up...

Is it a 'fading' battery or a seizing motor - or a bit of both? Car is 10 years old, bless her.

DEViANCE · **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2011, 14:53:13 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 14:53:13 PM

radio security code and crazy dials are usually a sign of a dying battery. They are cheapest and I'm sure you could manage that yourself give it ago.

Most service garages will offer a 'free battery test' might be worth a visit, or if you have a multimeter test it yourself.

knighty · **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2011, 15:18:36 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 15:18:36 PM

it sound be a bad connection somewhere if it wouldn't start and then was fine later on.... if it's a bad battery it normally just gets worse

what was it like in the cold ? the cold really cuts down the output and storage capacity of your battery

Eagle · **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2011, 16:24:43 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 16:24:43 PM

Quote from: DEViANCE on April 23, 2011, 14:53:13 PM

radio security code and crazy dials are usually a sign of a dying battery. They are cheapest and I'm sure you could manage that yourself give it ago.

It's a megane - you have to take half the engine out to get at the battery!

Quote

Most service garages will offer a 'free battery test' might be worth a visit, or if you have a multimeter test it yourself.

Will do that. Once the UK's finished pissing about with Bank holidays...

Quote from: knighty on April 23, 2011, 15:18:36 PM

it sound be a bad connection somewhere if it wouldn't start and then was fine later on.... if it's a bad battery it normally just gets worse

what was it like in the cold ? the cold really cuts down the output and storage capacity of your battery

Fine in the cold and cold starts are ok too. It's usually when I've travelled somewhere and on return to the car it struggles. I then leave it 10-30 mins and it starts fine. Error not reproducible...

Eagle · **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2011, 22:18:21 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 22:18:21 PM

Further reading suggests it could be a dirty/worn Top Dead Centre Sensor (TDC) ... anyone heard of this?

Mongoose · **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2011, 22:26:16 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 22:26:16 PM

my Fabia is a similar age and has trouble starting warm. Cold it fires first time every time even in the depths of winter, but woe betide anyone who tries to start it with the engine near normal operating temperature.

My starter motor always turns though, just the engine doesn't fire. Could yours be an imobiliser problem? my old 306 used to intermittantly decide to imobilise itself for 10 minutes then be fine again.

Edit: when mine plays up it's often the case that the first attempt seems to reset something and the second or third time it'll just start as if to say "what's all the fuss about? I start perfectly!". I've taken to not expecting it to start the first time I turn the key when it's warm, I just let it turn over a couple of times then stop and try again, the second try usually does it even though from experience it would have carried on turning over indefinitely if I'd kept on with the first try.

Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 22:32:36 PM by Mongoose #187;

Eagle · **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2011, 22:34:55 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 22:34:55 PM

That was another theory I've read about. Some managed to get it started after locking and unlocking the car again via remote. Doesn't seem to work on mine though.

The starter motor begins to kick-in and there seems to be enough welly from the battery but it just doesn't manage to turn over, hence the TDC theory.

I can accept the expense of running a 10 year old car but not knowing what's wrong does my head in!

One thing I'm trying now - and I have no rationale for doing so - is to kick the revs high then kill the engine when turning it off. No idea if that'll affect anything...

Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 22:36:47 PM by Eagle #187;

Clock'd 0Ne · **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2011, 22:55:33 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 22:55:33 PM

What's the car? My Beemer doesn't like starting from warm sometimes, it's lifter pump related.

Bacon · **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2011, 22:58:10 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 22:58:10 PM

Quote from: Eagle on April 29, 2011, 22:34:55 PM

That was another theory I've read about. Some managed to get it started after locking and unlocking the car again via remote. Doesn't seem to work on mine though.

The starter motor begins to kick-in and there seems to be enough welly from the battery but it just doesn't manage to turn over, hence the TDC theory.

I can accept the expense of running a 10 year old car but not knowing what's wrong does my head in!

One thing I'm trying now - and I have no rationale for doing so - is to kick the revs high then kill the engine when turning it off. No idea if that'll affect anything...

Seems to be a lot of talk about the TDC/Crankshaft sensor around the net, you could try unplugging/cleaning reconnecting, and check the wire to make sure its not damaged in anyway.

Quote

I can say that cleaning the TDC sensor is like magic: Took me longer to get the tools out than to fix. The result is amazing, starts first go hot or cold, and I'm sure it runs better.
The advice is spot on, and easy to follow, so thanks to all of you for helping me to solve a problem I would have struggled over.

image found on another forum

Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 23:01:16 PM by Bacon #187;

Eagle · **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2011, 23:31:21 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 23:31:21 PM

Cheers, gonna hunt that sucker down tomorrow and clean her right up.

@Clock'd - it's a 2001 Megane Classic (Priviledge+ I might add!

)

Eagle · **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2011, 09:22:56 AM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 09:22:56 AM

Well, cleaned TDCs and still no joy.

In a bit of a rage by now, I kept the ignition key on permanent start and cranked for dear life. The starter motor turned slowly, slowly, slowly, faster, faster, faster and then eventually kicked-in after about ten seconds. Can't be good for it but that tells me it's not the battery.

Turned it off. Started just fine. Turned it off again, started just fine.

It'll be 'stuck' once again later.

Gah..

bear · **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2011, 10:08:36 AM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 10:08:36 AM

Next time if starter stick give the starter a good tap with a hammer and see if it starts, if so when you need new brushes.

Eagle · **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:12:48 AM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #12 on: April 30, 2011, 11:12:48 AM

Hmm. Thanks but if that's the case, why would it start fine 'sometimes'?

I've had the battery checked and it's fine.

Next to check is the immobiliser but if it's the immobiliser then cranking it for ten seconds and it starting would indicate it's not that...

bear · **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:41:21 AM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #13 on: April 30, 2011, 11:41:21 AM

Quote from: Eagle on April 30, 2011, 11:12:48 AM

Hmm. Thanks but if that's the case, why would it start fine 'sometimes'?

Worn brushes works sometimes and somtimes not, if they are worn and you tap starter they will make better contact.

soopahfly · **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2011, 12:07:04 PM

Re: Starter / Battery or both?

Reply #14 on: April 30, 2011, 12:07:04 PM

Sounds sensor related to me.

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Author Topic: Starter / Battery or both? (Read 6265 times)